This is it.goodbye

[6477244ts5]

Agree to disagree.

All about empathy until responsible for another human being's life. Literally. Then it's also about ethics and values. As I said. There is no hypocricy there, I would hold myself to the same standard. Period.

You can't know that as you aren't there, and it's unempathetic to imagine you have some magical strength to do so when so many others have not and to judge them for that. People love to declare what the WOULD do...until they can't/don't.

There is a saying that goes something like "people judge others for their actions but judge themselves for their intentions" and its fitting here. Easy to say things...doing things is much different and experience and empathy teach you that. The defensive reactions people give when you note this about them just proves it more. There is some mental block so many have where they simply cannot put themselves in someone else's shoes and realize that even some value they deeply hold is dust compared to the weight of certain suffering. Everyone needs to think of themselves as "good" and having hard lines until they are at those lines and see it's not that simple and they would do ANYTHING to make the pain stop. Like people being tortured literally...they will say anything.

 

[Morning Angel]

You can't know that as you aren't there, and it's unempathetic to imagine you have some magical strength to do so when so many others have not and to judge them for that. People love to declare what the WOULD do...until they can't/don't.

I really appreciate this part of your comment. Time and time again, I've seen suicidal people judge the next suicidal person and I find it so odd, considering how isolated we are already from non-suicidal people. Judgement about circumstances, whether or not their reasons for leaving are valid, how "serious" they are. None of us can really know what it's like in the next person's body and mind with 100% specificity and we all have different capabilities/limits. It's hard not to judge, I know. I have a problem with really young people who are able bodied doing it, but we can at least ask questions and try to understand.

 

[Luke]

Judgement about methods, circumstances, timelines, whether or not their reasons for leaving are valid, how "serious" they are..

Exactly. Everyone burns in their own hell. It's pointless and disrespectful to doubt their level of suffering based on the above.

 

[Morning Angel]

FucK I am over the barrier and am scared

I'm afraid it may be too late but....
We love you, Lara. If you haven't been scooped up by police, you can always come back to us. No shame at all.

 

[Mari]

You can't know that as you aren't there, and it's unempathetic to imagine you have some magical strength to do so when so many others have not and to judge them for that. People love to declare what the WOULD do...until they can't/don't.

There is a saying that goes something like "people judge others for their actions but judge themselves for their intentions" and its fitting here. Easy to say things...doing things is much different and experience and empathy teach you that. The defensive reactions people give when you note this about them just proves it more. There is some mental block so many have where they simply cannot put themselves in someone else's shoes and realize that even some value they deeply hold is dust compared to the weight of certain suffering. Everyone needs to think of themselves as "good" and having hard lines until they are at those lines and see it's not that simple and they would do ANYTHING to make the pain stop. Like people being tortured literally...they will say anything.

You don't know me, obviously.
And you have no clue what unimaginable torture hells I've been through. Don't even go there.

I don't judge anyone. I just state that for me, it makes a world of difference - having children or not. I simply share my perspective. Have I shamed her? Guilted her? Told her it was wrong?
No.

Btw. I know motherhood from experience.

We disagree.
Peace.

 

[Bunny13000]

Deciding what is right and wrong is like a double edged sword. I can see it from both perspectives. My mother died when i was young, my mental health deteriorated from there (it made me who i am today, the good the bad the ugly). But i watched my mother being depressed crying all the time and having a really bad standard of life. I wouldn't want to see my mum have to live like that, she's free from the pain that makes me happy for her.

 

[Bunny13000]

God rest her soul x

 

[6477244ts5]

You don't know me, obviously.
And you have no clue what unimaginable torture hells I've been through. Don't even go there.
I don't judge anyone. I just state that for me, it makes a world of difference - having children or not.

We disagree.
Peace.

I know you are not exactly where she is as you are holding her to standard you think you would follow but cannot know. Even if you have kids...she might be farther along than you and lost more. You don't know what I have been through...or anyone here...that's the point of empathy and it's not a contest. What you are implying is you are stronger than her and WOULD do something she cannot...I think that's wrong of you. If you want to make it out like you are being unfairly attacked and are the REAL victim here that's your choice. Being defensive about unfair behavior seems the norm rather than people saying "you know what? I was unfair and I understand how someone can lose all ability to cope regardless of responsibilities and pressures".

 

[Mari]

I know you are not exactly where she is as you are holding her to standard you think you would follow but cannot know. Even if you have kids...she might be farther along than you and lost more. You don't know what I have been through...or anyone here...that's the point of empathy and it's not a contest. What you are implying is you are stronger than her and WOULD do something she cannot...I think that's wrong of you. If you want to make it out like you are being unfairly attacked and are the REAL victim here that's your choice.

I don't find anything here but extreme defensiveness - and see no victim but Lara.

 

[6477244ts5]

Exactly. Everyone burns in their own hell. It's pointless and disrespectful to doubt their level of suffering based on the above.

Even when I have an initial reaction to some melodramatic, dumped teenager in my mind..I realize for them it's as painful and real as my issues. The difference between empathy and selfishness isn't how you feel or think...it's how you react to others in their unique pain. We all might think..."well that's not as good of a reason as I have with my painful illnesses" etc...but if you just chastise or dismiss or one up them you just add pain. I find victims to often be some of the harshest critics of other victims...almost like it's a threat or challenge to their position or views if they are understanding. Like abused kids who have kids and abuse them...but I just can't stand ego driven fights and blame and insult. Where the root is lashing out to maintain one's own sense of righteousness. Beating someone because "I dealt with it" , or refusing to apologize for fear of looking "weak", or insulting someone because "I wouldn't have done this thing in this impossible situaton like they did" etc. Winds me up every time...reacting to it is my mistake.

 

[Morning Angel]

Deciding what is right and wrong is like a double edged sword. I can see it from both perspectives. My mother died when i was young, my mental health deteriorated from there (it made me who i am today, the good the bad the ugly). But i watched my mother being depressed crying all the time and having a really bad standard of life. I wouldn't want to see my mum have to live like that, she's free from the pain that makes me happy for her.

Your compassion for your mother is noteworthy, Bunny. I'm so sorry you had to live without her for so long.

 

[Smilla]

Even when I have an initial reaction to some melodramatic, dumped teenager in my mind..I realize for them it's as painful and real as my issues. The difference between empathy and selfishness isn't how you feel or think...it's how you react to others in their unique pain. We all might think..."well that's not as good of a reason as I have with my painful illnesses" etc...but if you just chastise or dismiss or one up them you just add pain. I find victims to often be some of the harshest critics of other victims...almost like it's a threat or challenge to their position or views if they are understanding. Like abused kids who have kids and abuse them...but I just can't stand ego driven fights and blame and insult. Where the root is lashing out to maintain one's own sense of righteousness. Beating someone because "I dealt with it" , or refusing to apologize for fear of looking "weak", or insulting someone because "I wouldn't have done this thing in this impossible situaton like they did" etc. Winds me up every time...reacting to it is my mistake.

Victims? To whom are you referring?

Who are the "victims"?

 

[Laggy]

6477244ts5 I want to thank you for your comments on this thread.

I also have kids and let me assure everyone that you do not need to remind us how much we'll harm our children when we commit suicide. As a parent, it's all I think about. Like Lara, I tried therapy and several different medications, to no avail. Having kids does make me feel immensely obligated to stay alive, but it doesn't lessen my suffering in any way or enable me to endure.

Lara, I'm sorry your last day was so miserable and your exit so full of fear and suffering. I hope you are at peace now ):

 

[Smilla]

6477244ts5 I want to thank you for your comments on this thread.

I also have kids and let me assure everyone that you do not need to remind us how much we'll harm our children when we commit suicide. As a parent, it's all I think about. Like Lara, I tried therapy and several different medications, to no avail. Having kids does make me feel immensely obligated to stay alive, but it doesn't lessen my suffering in any way or enable me to endure.

Lara, I'm sorry your last day was so miserable and your exit so full of fear and suffering. I hope you are at peace now ):

Why did you have kids in the first place? Knowing you were prone to depression?

Circumstances change of course and etc....

Genuinely curious.

And respect your decision to leave or to stay!

 

[6477244ts5]

My parents had me as a cure for depression.


BEING FATHER BRINGS CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU MUST ASSUME, no matter of how you see it.

.

I had shit parents too and undestand abandonment. That doesn't change the fact that even my shit parents have a limit. MUST is your opinion...and it doesn't override someone's inability to cope. It's like saying "don't burn to death while you are on fire". You cannot help it no matter how hard you try. Your insults...calling us monsters...is unfair and unreasonable.

 

[Smilla]

I had shit parents too and undestand abandonment. That doesn't change the fact that even my shit parents have a limit. MUST is your opinion...and it doesn't override someone's inability to cope. It's like saying "don't burn to death while you are on fire". You cannot help it no matter how hard you try. Your insults...calling us monsters...is unfair and unreasonable.

I am biased. I am an antinatalist.

Why do you have kids in the first place?

I knew better when I was 17, then 26, etc than to have kids knowing my family history and the risks involved.

Were you just young and dumb or merely optimistic and "in love"?

 

[Tiburcio]

...You won't see your mistakes, right?

Don't you see your insults against us?

Don't you notice our pain?

How can you justify such a calamity?

 

[6477244ts5]

I can't edit my posts again so will add this here. I also reject your assertion I did damage to you because I disagree with you. I didn't create you, I didn't cause your problems, I haven't abandoned children. You are shamefully attacking an easy target and I will not stand for it.

 

[Smilla]

I can't edit my posts again so will add this here. I also reject your assertion I did damage to you because I disagree with you. I didn't create you, I didn't cause your problems, I haven't abandoned children. You are shamefully attacking an easy target and I will not stand for it.

Easy target? Who again?

Oh you have kids. Kids YOU brought into existence but you act as if it was some accident of fate.

I do judge people who murder other people and I judge people who suicide without a thought for their kids....

 

[6477244ts5]

I am an easy target for all his anger at his father. He is taking it out on me. I don't have kids. I jsut don't judge people who do have kids for losing their ability to cope like some childish angry person who thinks they would somehow manage when otehrs cannot. I think then insulting them by saying you hope they live and suffer and that they do not deserve peace is horrible and cruel.

 

[Smilla]

I am an easy target for all his anger at his father. He is taking it out on me. I don't have kids. I jsut don't judge people who do have kids for losing their ability to cope like some childish angry person who thinks they would somehow manage when otehrs cannot. I think then insulting them by saying you hope they live and suffer and that they do not deserve peace is horrible and cruel.

Everyone deserves peace but you have to know that the experience of losing a parent in childhood is horrific.


Comments closed for me. Too close to home. Peace to you.

 

[Smilla]

Anyone who attacks fellow victims rather than the actual cause of their pain is wrong. This all started because I said I don't think guilting her is fair. That's been done repeatedly to her on this forum. It's wrong. You can argue. misquote, use strawmen, move the goalpoasts, be pissy all day over it. It's wrong. Shame on you

Nobody guilted her.


Not one.

Check your attitude altimeter and fly away.

Look again at the earlier posts.

 

[6477244ts5]

YOU
ARE
MONSTERS.
.................

And unlike the previous users, I don't support your choice of killing yourselves: feel the pain and face the consequences of your actions.

Anyone who thinks THIS is an OK reaction to disagreement on this issue, including you Smilla who "liked" the post, should be ashamed.

 

[Smilla]

Anyone who thinks THIS is an OK reaction to disagreement on this issue, including you Smilla who "liked" the post, should be ashamed.

Anyone who thinks losing a parent in childhood is "no big deal"....

Should be ashamed.

Goodnight, Sir.

 

[6477244ts5]

Anyone who thinks losing a parent in childhood is "no big deal"....

Should be ashamed.

Goodnight, Sir.

I never said it was no big deal. it's horrible that child has to suffer that. I was abandoned repeatedly by family.

What I repeatedly and actually said that parents are people too who have limits too and cannot magically suffer past a line YOU cannot because they have children.

You are looking for someone to blame. You are twisting what was said and putting words in my mouth. Disagree with me...but do it honestly and not thrashing at me with bullshit. This happens in every such forum/subreddit/site. Victims attacking other victims as easy outlets for their pain and shit and I won't take it and not respond. We are better than this.

 

[Smilla]

I never said it was no big deal. it's horrible that child has to suffer that. I was abandoned repeatedly by family.

What I repeatedly and actually said that parents are people too who have limits too and cannot magically suffer past a line YOU cannot because they have children.

You are looking for someone to blame. You are twisting what was said and putting words in my mouth. Disagree with me...but do it honestly and not thrashing at me with bullshit. This happens in every such forum/subreddit/site. Victims attacking other victims as easy outlets for their pain and shit and I won't take it and not respond. We are better than this.

YOU attacked me. Said I should be "ashamed".

What planet do you live on? Don't answer that.

I met your kind once before (I think) and don't wish to again.


Bye.

 

[No1SpecL2U]

As a broken man who lost his parents at 3 and 4 and ready to leave my beautiful 3yo twin daughters behind after having my life shattered, I sympathize with your torment and pain. I hope you can read this and are free at peace. You will forever be in your son's heart and he won't forget or hate you. Sending this message with love from a stranger. See you on the other side soon and we will chat more.

 

[Brokenanddeadinside]

I grew up without a mother due to her dying in a motorcycle accident when i was 8 months old and my whole life grew up with my father who was always thinking about suicide. To this day he thinks about killing himself and a couple months ago I thought he actually was going too. I know in the next few years he will kill himself but I have learned to accept it and told him that if he ever really feels he needs too that I give him the ok as much as it will hurt but Its not fair for me to expect him to stay alive with all the shit he has going on in his head.

 

[Lara Francis]

I Could not do it.!
I held onto the rail but I love my boy too much to cause him such pain.
I downed a bottle of baiLeYs and the police picked me up totally pissed and irrable.
I am now admitted onto a psy ward on suicide watch.Thankyou for the messages and I need to concentrate on receiving help and fighting to get my beautiful boy back xx

 

[Morning Angel]

I Could not do it.!
I held onto the rail but I love my boy too much to cause him such pain.
I downed a bottle of baiLeYs and the police picked me up totally pissed and irrable.
I am now admitted onto a psy ward on suicide watch.Thankyou for the messages and I need to concentrate on receiving help and fighting to get my beautiful boy back xx

let us know if there's anything we can do to support you even in this limited medium