Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Trashcan]

Do you have any advice about how I can refill my argon tank? Where I should go? What to say? Etc. I want to try again, but with a bag.

 

[Kdawg2018]

What area are you by?

 

[Kdawg2018]

In my area you can go to the welding air supply store ls for a refill, keep in mind that some of these stores want to exchange your tank for a full one, which can be a problem for your attatchment size. Sometimes they will fill your tank same day, sometimes they will fill your tank in a few days and you leave it there. If you find an air supply store, I would call ahead of time to see what the story is

 

[Trashcan]

In my area you can go to the welding air supply store ls for a refill, keep in mind that some of these stores want to exchange your tank for a full one, which can be a problem for your attatchment size. Sometimes they will fill your tank same day, sometimes they will fill your tank in a few days and you leave it there. If you find an air supply store, I would call ahead of time to see what the story is

Thanks.

 

[Trashcan]

Stupid question, but do you think I could fill it up with nitrogen? When I ordered the tank for cyber weld, it gave me the option to fill it up with either argon or nitrogen.

 

[Kdawg2018]

I think so, they might ask what was in it before & tell them so they can empty/clean it out all the way, then they can fill it with nitrogen

 

[TiredHorse]

I'm not sure they'll fill it with a different gas --there might be safety regulations about that-- but they ought to either refill it with Ar or trade your empty for a full one. The valve fittings should be the same thread size (internationally standardized, I think), so the same regulator should work.

The worry that pops into my head about asking for N2 instead of Ar is whether they would start asking inconvenient questions about why you wanted a different gas.

 

[Kdawg2018]

I bought my 22 size tanks at a brewing store. When I went to air supply for fill they did not ask me what it was for (in USA), they wanted to trade my tanks for beat up old ones & they didnt have the same size. They also said I would have to come back in 2 days for them to fill & theybwerent sure if the full tanks for exchange had the same fitting size. I went to a different air supply down the road, he told me they already filled nitrogen for the day so I might have to leave them to get filled, he checked with the guys in the back and they hooked me up with the fill the same day, told me come back in 2 hours for pickup. I got a haircut during the wait time for my cover story :) . They had asked me if my tanks were filled before and I said no, they are new.

 

[TiredHorse]

I just remembered another potential "cover story" for buying inert gas: for those who keep large stocks of long-storage food on hand --"preppers"-- flooding the containers of dry goods with inert gas is a way to keep out the moths, mice, and microbes and prevent nutritional degredation from oxidization. A 5-gallon bucket mostly full of rice, or beans, or whatever, lasts a lot longer if it is "headspaced" with N2 or Ar before being lidded. Some people just toss in a chunk of dry ice (CO2) to kill the bugs and mice, but the inert gas is better at actual preservation of the nutritional value.

To that end, I've now shifted my tank of N2 into the pantry in case anyone comes looking.

 

[jay35]

I just remembered another potential "cover story" for buying inert gas: for those who keep large stocks of long-storage food on hand --"preppers"-- flooding the containers of dry goods with inert gas is a way to keep out the moths, mice, and microbes and prevent nutritional degredation from oxidization. A 5-gallon bucket mostly full of rice, or beans, or whatever, lasts a lot longer if it is "headspaced" with N2 or Ar before being lidded. Some people just toss in a chunk of dry ice (CO2) to kill the bugs and mice, but the inert gas is better at actual preservation of the nutritional value.

To that end, I've now shifted my tank of N2 into the pantry in case anyone comes looking.

I have the supplies for this method too. I've tried the bag on & filled it with N2 but I haven't attempted because of my fear of the bag & general fear after a failure with another method that really set me back.
I'm very concerned that you tried it 3x & the survival instinct made you pull the bag off. That could well happen to me. You are going to try again?

 

[TiredHorse]

I have the supplies for this method too. I've tried the bag on & filled it with N2 but I haven't attempted because of my fear of the bag & general fear after a failure with another method that really set me back.
I'm very concerned that you tried it 3x & the survival instinct made you pull the bag off. That could well happen to me. You are going to try again?

I'm not sure how to reassure your fears; they can be so complex, and things I have done to prepare myself --donning the bag every so often just to acclimate myself to having it on my head, etc.-- may not be useful to you.

Survival instinct is a bitch. As I've described elsewhere(?), in that moment where I started to black out it was as though I became two people: the persona who was desperate to ctb, and a much, much steadier persona, less present in my mindset but somehow more forceful, who took control of my body and removed the bag from my head. I did not tear the bag off or struggle, I just quickly and dexterously removed it from my head. Then that second persona vanished and I collapsed in a sobbing heap. The description coming to my mind now is that it was akin to being a small child, and lifted away from my games by a far larger adult that I hadn't a chance to even struggle against effectively. It had shades of the same sense of impotence, fury, frustration, indignation, injustice.

Will I try again? Yes. At least that's my current intent. The method is as proven as any other, from what I can tell it is as painless as all sources say it is, and it will not leave so unpleasant a corpse as my back-up method (firearm). So I will keep trying for so long as I have enough N2 in the tank to get the job done and not leave myself alive but brain damaged. What have I got to lose?

 

[Jodes]

Survival instinct is a bitch. As I've described elsewhere(?), in that moment where I started to black out it was as though I became two people: the persona who was desperate to ctb, and a much, much steadier persona, less present in my mindset but somehow more forceful, who took control of my body and removed the bag from my head. I did not tear the bag off or struggle, I just quickly and dexterously removed it from my head. Then that second persona vanished and I collapsed in a sobbing heap. The description coming to my mind now is that it was akin to being a small child, and lifted away from my games by a far larger adult that I hadn't a chance to even struggle against effectively. It had shades of the same sense of impotence, fury, frustration, indignation, injustice.

I've seen you talk about them, but not described like that. I feel like we're forced to be guinea pigs. And sensorship means the same mistakes are repeated

 

[TiredHorse]

I've seen you talk about them, but not described like that. I feel like we're forced to be guinea pigs. And sensorship means the same mistakes are repeated

I've been thinking about my experiences a lot, trying to make sense of them. Partly to figure out a way around that second, protective persona --but I admit it's also partly to question whether I am on the right path. I spend so much time telling other members of ss to explore every other path, to really question whether ctb is the right thing to do, I think it's only right that I demand the same introspection of myself.

But more relevant to this thread, perhaps, is that yes, we are the guinea pigs, but I take some comfort from knowing that in my experience there is no pain/discomfort from eb/N2. Nothing can abate the anxiety of ending my life; that's an internal factor that will be present regardless of what method I use. Aside from that, however, eb/N2 does not seem to add any physical discomfort to the process. In as much as any method is "peaceful," eb/N2 does appear to be peaceful when done correctly.

AND...! My statement needs to be balanced against the experience of others like Trashcan, who got much further along in the process before being stymied. I strongly suspect that was equipment failure rather than method failure, but equipment failures can happen, and must be accounted for when planning.

 

[jay35]

I'm not sure how to reassure your fears; they can be so complex, and things I have done to prepare myself --donning the bag every so often just to acclimate myself to having it on my head, etc.-- may not be useful to you.

Survival instinct is a bitch. As I've described elsewhere(?), in that moment where I started to black out it was as though I became two people: the persona who was desperate to ctb, and a much, much steadier persona, less present in my mindset but somehow more forceful, who took control of my body and removed the bag from my head. I did not tear the bag off or struggle, I just quickly and dexterously removed it from my head. Then that second persona vanished and I collapsed in a sobbing heap. The description coming to my mind now is that it was akin to being a small child, and lifted away from my games by a far larger adult that I hadn't a chance to even struggle against effectively. It had shades of the same sense of impotence, fury, frustration, indignation, injustice.

Will I try again? Yes. At least that's my current intent. The method is as proven as any other, from what I can tell it is as painless as all sources say it is, and it will not leave so unpleasant a corpse as my back-up method (firearm). So I will keep trying for so long as I have enough N2 in the tank to get the job done and not leave myself alive but brain damaged. What have I got to lose?

Yes I know this feeling of 2 minds.
Thanks for reviewing your reaction to the bag.

 

[Comatose11]

Do you have to use elastic? Or can you use yarn? I read the PPH but am still confused.

 

[TiredHorse]

Yes, you need to use elastic: the seal around your neck must be flexible to allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2.

If you don't allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2, the CO2 will trigger your hypercapnic alarm, your body will react beyond your conscious control and you will pull away the bag, and your attempt will fail.

 

[Comatose11]

Yes, you need to use elastic: the seal around your neck must be flexible to allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2.

If you don't allow the inert gas to carry away the CO2, the CO2 will trigger your hypercapnic alarm, your body will react beyond your conscious control and you will pull away the bag, and your attempt will fail.

Ok thanks. Can I also use a single hole puncher to make a hole for the elastic, or does it have to be a slit?

 

[TiredHorse]

Ok thanks. Can I also use a single hole puncher to make a hole for the elastic, or does it have to be a slit?

So long as the hole you punch is 1) adequately reinforced by tape, and 2) large enough for the elastic to pass through without further tearing the bag, I don't see why that wouldn't work. Give it a try.

The good thing about building your own eb is that turkey roasting bags come in boxes of two. You can always build one eb as practice, trying out things like using a hole-punch instead of a cutting a slit. If your modifications to the original design don't work, you have the second turkey bag as a back up, to follow the original design more precisely.

And if you flub the second bag, you can always go back for more materials.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Would alcohol help to calm the nerves during that first minute when you pull that bag down before you pass out? Obviously you wouldnt want to get too drunk... Or you'll screw it up. I'll probably avoid alcohol altogether or maybe have just a few beers before hand

 

[Jenna]

Would alcohol help to calm the nerves during that first minute when you pull that bag down before you pass out? Obviously you wouldnt want to get too drunk... Or you'll screw it up. I'll probably avoid alcohol altogether or maybe have just a few beers before hand

I think the video for final exit network mentioned alcohol and sleeping pills but not enough to not know what you are doing.

 

[TiredHorse]

Would alcohol help to calm the nerves during that first minute when you pull that bag down before you pass out? Obviously you wouldnt want to get too drunk... Or you'll screw it up. I'll probably avoid alcohol altogether or maybe have just a few beers before hand

This is a bit off topic for the title of the OP, but for me, personally, I'm conflicted about a sedative/anxiolytic. On the one hand, yes, it would probably help. Those seconds/minutes/?? when I have the bag over my head, and I start to black out, are very, very stressful. Survival instinct is a bitch, and that's what's caused me to fail in the past. Dulling that SI would make it easier to ctb.

However, I have a peculiar philosophical resistance to using such measures. When I die, I want to do so with full command of my mental processes. I need to know I faced Death with a clear mind.

I want to emphasize that philosophical decision is just me. I do not want to say others shouldn't have a couple beers, or take something to dull the anxiety. Having heard how stressfull the experience has been for me, others should feel free to take that into consideration when they make their own preparations.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

I agree @TiredHorse i want to approach my end with as much rationality, clear mind and proper focus as i can. Part of me belives if a person wants to CTB they wouldnt need something to overcone the survival instinct, maybe its there because at that moment they really dont want to die despite the pain their lives brings. Just my opinion, i understand that SI is very much apart of our nature as humans but can we be fully certain death is 100% what we want because if it was NOTHING would be able to stop us.

 

[Gainax]

can you update your topic and organize info?

Phill N talking about method


Creating exit bags



Regulator Installation




Order cylinder from USA
https://store.cyberweld.com/shielgascyl22.html

Order cylinder from Germany
http://shop.gase-dopp.de/Stickstoff-28-2-Liter-Flasche-neu-gefuellt



if you can post some links on where to buy the stuff needed

 

[TiredHorse]

@Gainax, fantastic additions. Thank you!

I bought most of my supplies locally, not over the internet, so the only good link I can add is:

Order regulator/flowmeter in the USA:
https://www.harborfreight.com/regulator-gauge-94841.html

Find gas cylinders locally in the USA:
https://www.airgas.com/

 

[Nobodyanywhere]

I'm thinking about using Argon, which I already have in combination with a large dose of ketamine, which I also already have. The ketamine does a pretty good job of immobilizing you, so it would be difficult to back out once I started.

Ideally, I think I would prefer N or a gun, but ive gotten rid of all the guns and N doesn't seem like a sure thing.

Is the Ketamine a bad idea? I'm sure I can figure out a sitting situation so that I cant move.

 

[TiredHorse]

Argon should be fine, from what I can tell. Others here are going that route. The only Ar failure I've heard was due (I think) to using a repurposed snorkle mask rather than an exit bag, and that wasn't the Ar's fault.

As for the ketamine: My experience is that I've failed three times with eb/ig. Each time, I got close to blacking out and survival instinct kicked in and I pulled the bag away. Judging from those experiences, I don't think that an immobilizer would have helped. There's about a two minute window between when you need to have your wits about you and full coordination, to get the gas flowing and the bag ready, and when you either black out or pull the bag away. That's a rough guess, but call it two minutes between opening the valve and unconscious. The ketamine would need to have a very, very fast onset, and you'd need to time it just exactly right, otherwise you'd either be too uncoordinated to start the process, or it would be pointless to have bothered with the ketamine.

In short, I wouldn't bother with the ketamine. I think either it would be pointless or it would sabotage you from the outset.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

I snuck katamine into the psych ward, git found out because i snorted it in tje bathroom but didnt get out of there in time. They unlocked the door amd there was me, in a complete ket hole sitting against the wall unable to move. Luckily at first she thought i was just upset and wasnt lifting my head but i had to then try crawl to my room (it was like that scene in wolf of wall street) ketamine and eb, hell no. Ketamine with a noose already round your neck, possible

 

[Nobodyanywhere]

That makes a lot of sense. Onset would be way too slow. Even if the gas is already flowing and all I have to do after I've snorted it is put the bag over my head I can see that this wouldn't be the way to go.

I've only snorted it in small amounts. Oddly enough it was prescribed as a treatment for depression after I did ketamine infusion therapy. I had figured that more would be faster/more immobilizing.

That must have been crazy bringing it into the hospital!

 

[Shewaitsforme]

That makes a lot of sense. Onset would be way too slow. Even if the gas is already flowing and all I have to do after I've snorted it is put the bag over my head I can see that this wouldn't be the way to go.

I've only snorted it in small amounts. Oddly enough it was prescribed as a treatment for depression after I did ketamine infusion therapy. I had figured that more would be faster/more immobilizing.

That must have been crazy bringing it into the hospital!

I got away with it for 8 days. Once when coming out of a ket-hole i was called to see the doctor, i fell over leaving my room, literally git down the hallway hugging the wall, fell asleep infront the doctor, coukdnt open my eyes untill the lights were turned off. They searched my but only found 1 small baggy. Searched my room but they didnt look i the curtains, thats where i hid it, inbeween the fabric at the bottom. I had to give it all over in the end as they threatened to bring a drugs dog in

 

[Fathead70]

Ugh...I might have some trouble getting a good 8L tank into play. Wish I could collect up mutiple small disposables and tie them in to the bag but works out too expensive, and jeez, all the pipes.

I been looking into beer making kits. CO2 and a mask. But need to find a regulator. That's not $500.